Heat reduction through windows.

[rvpopeye]

Sucks that was what it turned out to be ,
but you did gain skills in the process that will make installing the good stuff come out better !

[sternwake]

Sucks that was what it turned out to be ,
but you did gain skills in the process that will make installing the good stuff come out better !

The junk tint also has a California sticker on it the other tints did not have, saying it contains some polybutylbadshit chemical known to cause cancer in humans.  Was not lead either.  I'll see if I can find it.

In shopping for quality adhesive backed  mirror tint, besides the Hupo Optik or whatever its called, it is not much more expensive than the static cling tint. Proving I am a self defeating foot shooter.

 I did not shoponline  long enough to pinpoint what I want, and the back windows mirror or no mirror is as yet undecided.

So basically I should not ever have bothered buying more cling tint other than when the piece I sick in Fiona's window becomes too compromised to keep using. ALL the other windows should have higher quality adhesive tint applied to the best of my ability.

So,  Don't make my mistakes, this static cling stuff is too varied as to quality, and even the one brand I like most, there is no data as to how long it remains mirror like with the pleasing color and acceptably good clarity.

The adhesive tints I used in the past were all Gila brand.  They all degrade to pretty bad , purplish and loss of clarity, in 6 to 8 years.  The film, then adhesive is not all that bad to remove with a Lisle razor blade scraper.  The cling tint peels off clean with a fingernail, but simply is not worth the frustration in anything other than intended temporary situations.

The one door window and one conversion van window with the best 'out of stock' cling tint is so much more pleasant to look through than any other window, and the door window on clear greenish glass, is the only one which actually looks truly mirrorlike in daylight.

Looking at my ebay order history, this now 'out of stock' tint was also the cheapest, but a bit shy of its claimed length, and the worst quality black mirror static cling tint, was nearly 50% more expensive than the best.

[rvpopeye]

Some people can't imagine why you go to such things to find the perfect solution.
I can.
Thx man , your participation is priceless !

[Wayne49]

Those California warning labels are on everything.

Next up, warning signs on the state line?

Over on the new-old site, in a thread about diesel heaters and ventilation, someone mentioned your nom de plume, and referenced your post about stealth ventilation behind the rear license plate using muffin fans.

[sternwake]

Interesting, I don't really recall, and dont visit that site anymore.

My conversion van window that holds my intake fan shroud, with the #2 cling tint, did not have any tint on teh smoked glass lower portion of the window.

The smartshield is nearly completely invisible behind the #1, or #2 window tint, even with direct sunlight on it, but the untinted smoked window under it screamed mylar reflection/ insulation, as did the slider portion of the window which has been smoked acrylic for a decade.

I decided to waste my time and at least hide the smartshield behind the #3 shit quality clingtint. as all my leftover scraps of #1 and #2 tint are too small.

I put 2 layers on the smoked glass lower portion of window. and one on the smoked acrylic.

The sun was shining through the window onto the bed platform, and after 30 minutes of sunlight baking the bed platform unabated, I busted out the IR thermometer to see any temp differences on those surfaces.

So window 1/2 open, nothing attenuating sunlight, 122.5f
smoked glass with one layer of #2 cling tint, 88.5f
Smoked glass with 2 layers of #3 cling tint, 93f
smoked acrylic with one layer of #3 cling tint, 90f
smoked glass with 2 layers of #3 cling tint, and smoked acrylic with 1 layer of #3 cling tint, 91f

Some surprising data. The coolest was the #2 tint. 2 layers of #3 tint allowed a hotter surface.

Looking out from within, I can barely see through two layers of #3 tint on the smoked glass.
Outside looking in, and I cant even tell there is the silver reflectix/smartshield pressed up against the glass.

I really wish the #1 'out of stock' cling tint, was not out of stock or that I just bought enough of it before it went out of stock/ The other stuff is so far below in clarity and color, but I did not have a good way to directly compare heat rejection to teh other windows as the surface the sun would land on is different.

Sticking my hand up near the #1 tint and then the #2 tint, they feel about the same. The IT gun does not work well on highly reflective surfaces, and busting out the Ktype thermocouple is a few stages beyond the degree of effort I wish to expend to satisfy my curiosity.

As stated previously, I should not have wasted Any time or money on teh cling tints on any window where temporary and ease of removal is not the prime consideration in its use.

The mirror cling tint certainly does reject a lot of heat that the dark smoked conversion van window glass would otherwise happily radiate and convect to the interior, and these windows are the prime sources of heating when parked in sunlight.


Me thinks

https://www.huperoptikusa.com/

is where I should have put my money and effort of application, instead.

[maki2]

If you want epoxy to cure in colder weather put the containers of part A and Part B into a hot water bath before mixing them together. The preheated resins then go right into a rapid kicking off mode. I know this through first hand experience doing epoxy work outdoors in Seattle in the wintertime.

In addition you can purchase epoxy resins that are formulated for slow cure, medium and fast cure times. I like the MAS brand as it does not contain any skin sensitizers versus brands such as West System. I learned a lot about fiberglass after spending the better part of 30 years next to boatyards

[sternwake]

I have found that if the properly mixed epoxy does not spend the initial 6 to 8 hours above the minimum working temperature, it loses some of its properties, even if it eventually seems to harden properly.

It does not sand the same, it seems to not bond as well as expected to the substrate, and if there are layers of epoxy, it is easy to see where one layer properly cured in 6 hours meets that which spent 3 hours above the minimum, then 12 hours below, then eventually got hard enough the next day or subsequent days, when it warmed back up.
If Epoxy spends those initial 6 to 8 hours 10f above its minimum working temperature, it is 95% cured in 12 hours, but if it falls below that minimum temperature within that initial 6 to 8 hours, it can then take 24+ hours to even reach 85% cured even at elevated temperatures, and the 100% cure can take a week. It might clog up the sand paper or get all cloudy, permanently, if sanded too early.

Also, high humidity at night has far more a chance of causing the amine blush to form, even on the supposed 'blush free' epoxies, and removing the blush before sanding for mechanical tooth, for proper secondary bonding is a bit more than just an annoying extra step. Much less chance of amine blush forming if it has 6 to 8 hours well above its minimum working temperature.

Applying my 60f minimum epoxy, to an aluminum window frame which will be below 60F in 2 hours, could have worked 'good enough', but I prefer to not take chances when there is no need to. One reason I employ epoxy as much as I do when normally paint would suffice, is that the epoxy I use, is stink free in 4 hours, when it remains above its max working temp, and the window frame to which i was applying it, is basically right where my head resides at night.

I also despise the much reduced working times when one heats both the resin and hardener. In general, when I mix epoxy, I have the one main intended project and something else ready for any extra leftovers, and i want the time to work precisely and not be freaking out racing the clock. I hate waste, and mixing too little thus requiring requiring a second batch be mixed hastily within the chemical bond window pisses me off greatly, so I mix a bit more than I think I need.

If the epoxy needs to be heated to flow/ wet out fiberglass properly, then the surface onto which that fiberglass is being applied better also be heated as it will nearly instantly suck the heat from the epoxy and thus compromise the result, to some degree, with teh main effect of reducing the pot life/working time and a sub par result.

Honestly, when I mix larger batches I am looking at ways to spread the unapplied epoxy thin so the solid mass cannot exotherm, heat up and start curing in the mix cup before I am ready to apply it. I've used two steel paint trays, the bottom one filled with ice, to increase the pot life on hot days.

Heating both resin and hardener, just to deal with too cool a cure temperature is not something I will do in anything but an emergency, and only when the results do not much matter, and there is no other realistic option available.

I've not used MAS epoxy, but I have used West and hated it. My favorite is System3, but it is $$$. I have a decent surf supply shop fairly nearby, and avoid the hazardous cargo shipping fees, and their cheapest 'Apex' brand epoxy is what I've gotten used to working with lately, and it is not very kind in terms of imprecision, or humidity induced blush, or fisheyes caused by surface contamination, and so for the important tasks, I'll spend extra for the System3 epoxy.

I use a Digital scale to mix the ratios to the 0.01 of a gram for batches under 300 grams , and 0.1 gram for 300 to 2000 gram batches.
I will never again mix Epoxy by volume. unless it is am emergency and I cannot find a digital scale.

I am a bit of a Nazi regarding the proper resin hardener ratios and the thorough mixing of those ratios within the mixing cup.
My mixing cups and mixing sticks are designed to mate with each other perfectly so I can scrape sides and bottom and corner of the cup in one pass.

If the temp is going to fall below its minimum working temperature, or it is going to get humid during the initial 6 to 12 hours, I wait, as screwing it up is more than 3 times the work to rectify, in addition to the waste of epoxy and all the assorted tools needed to remove then apply it correctly, accounting for the variables which screwed it up the first time.

Last time I mixed up JB weld, I weighed it. Its 1:1 by ratio by volume and weight.
My 5 minute and 30 minute epoxies I dont really trust for anything important, but that mistrust is largely a result of mixing by volume instead of weight. Was kinf of surprised how well they worked when i used a scale for their ratios.

It's not Amazing how much better it cures when the ratio is precise, but it is amazing how far out the ratio can be ( with JB weld) when one tries to squeeze equal size blobs from thepart A and B tubes. The scale revealed my part B blob was 20% lighter than part A blob, and their diameters appeared nearly exactly the same to my eye.

Whenever I hear of JB Weld failures on tasks it should have had no issues working on, I know it is because of user error, that not only were the Part A and B ratios way out of whack, but they also were likely not mixed properly, thoroughly, homogenously, nor were they applied to a grease free surface that had adequate mechanical tooth for proper adhesion.

Don't get me started on achieving proper mechanical tooth for maximum bond strength.


The same happy go lucky nature of JB weld, cannot be said for laminating epoxies. One might be able to get the 2:1 volume ratio or 100:45 weight ratio, 5% off and still have it harden and sand OK, but it will not be as strong, or as durable, or bond as strongly.
If one does not thoroughly mix parts A and B, even f the ratio is perfect, then it just becomes a sticky gooey toxic nightmare.

In the surfboard industry the guys used to working with polyester resins spew hate at epoxy, as it is not production friendly in terms of imprecision or manufacturing speed, though the latter is able to be mitigated with proper laminating room temperature control and hardener choice. The former is impossible for the old timers who learned on Polyester resins and can't adapt, likely from having sniffed too much styrene fumes upto that point. They do excel at talking shit though.

Some of these old school polyester guys claim to have altered the part A and B epoxy ratio for temperature and claim it came out 'just fine' , once it 'finally cured'. But in use it yellows prematurely and gets damaged far too easily, so they say epoxy sucks, when it it they themselves are too ignorant to know it is they themselves who suck.

I've worked in a boatyard for a bit. Mostly polyester resin, some vinylester resins, all sorts of fiberglass matt and Bi-axial cloths, learned some different techniques, and working with gelcoats and molds, but few of my coworkers would/could ever have been trusted to laminate or sand a surfboard.
Using epoxy would have had their heads spinning. They had a few surfer 'ding fixers' come and go before me, and expected the same of me, briefly.

[maki2]

When doing the fiberglass repair on my trailer I purchased the pump dispensers. They measure out exactly the right amount of A to B ratio. It would be a real nuisance to weigh it out when doing a lot of repair work. My training came from boat repair person's. Some longtime boat owners and some from the pros at the boatyards and some from the local specialty fiberglass repair suppliers. Looking at my trailer now you would never find where I filled in large areas from various damage to the shell and holes from previous 50 year old, no longer viable fittings for electrical and plumbing.

[sternwake]

Pump dispensers are supposed to dispense perfect ratios.
Key word is 'supposed'.

I've heard nightmare stories from those who placed their trust in them, and after ruining a few surfboards, wound up using them.as pumps only, weighing the amounts.dispensed, and laughing about how far off each pump.was in terms.of ratio, and how Inconsistent they were in just how far off they were.

The high end glassing houses that will use epoxy,will not touch them anymore. One ruined glass job is a 1000$ plus loss for them. The lesser glassing houses stay with polyester resins even as eps.foam becomes more well liked underfoot. Polyester resin dissolves EPS.

Many have moved to large graduated syringes instead of pumps. And have production epoxy lamination down to a science , to minimize waste and.potential for failure and to keep the EPA from fining them.

Weighing .resin and hardener t to 0.1.or.0.01.grams, removes all doubt, and digital scales are now cheap, and reliable.

Weighing it is faster then fillling a graduated mixing cup, and all the potential errors involved in that procedure.

Glad your repairs are holding.

Working with epoxy and applying it to softwoods, hardwoods .extruded polystyrene or polyurethane foam or wood or steel or aluminum figerglass or silicon glass or PLA or PET, or ABS, is not an area in which I need advice.

[sternwake]

The original cling mirror tint, which I removed, and which had lost its mirror properties, and which stunk to high heaven once removed, is no no longer stinky, but it has degraded to crinkly brittleness.

I had saved the removed pieces thinking I could re purpose them at some point, but the stuff which saw additional Sunlight after removal, just degraded to the point where there was no point in repurposing it.

The one window with the 3 fan intake shroud, had issues with the black out panels I made back in 2013.
I decided they were not worth the effort to fix, again.
In the mean time I had previously cut a piece of the 5mm snartshield with the one white side facing in, silver side out, to keep light in/out., and was using only that one layer of smartshield.
I liked how easily I could peel a top corner of the smartshield down, and see out the window, yet still have total privacy in daylight. but the one layer would let in a dim glow of light in the morning, and I am a night owl.

In direct sun there was very little heat radiated from the white face of the 5mm smartshield, and from outside the silvery mylar face was not visible through smoked conversion van glass and mirror tint. Reflectix or similar in back windows of a van just screams camper van. I prefer to make no statement when possible.

SO,

I have decided to use 2 layers of the 5mm smartshield, white side in, silver side out, in each conversion van window, and ditch the 3 piece cardboard blackout panels. hopefully the newer mirror cling tint does not go clear like the previous, too quickly, but when it does, these windows are getting a quality adhesive lined mirror tint.

https://www.insulationmarketplace.com/pr...r-5mm.html

The one white face is much much nicer when facing the interior, compared to silvery reflectix. It reduces the baked potato feel, and is more durable than I anticipated.
I wish they made it 10mm thick with a aluminum silver side, instead of the Mylar.

All my front windows and windshield have 2 layers of the 5mm, white side in. Very little heat gets past them.